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What have you seen that that Jesus. That's it. Hasn't Satan been after women Right. But when we have those praying praying fathers, it's going to Yeah. Hey, welcome to the source cast. My name is Elijah Greiner. We're so grateful that you're Just want to give you a disclaimer right out the gate that this episode is going to be pretty sensitive and pretty heavy. As we discussed sexual abuse, drug addiction, and the Epstein files, I wanted to give you that disclaimer before we jumped into the episode. So if you needed to make any accommodations, you could do so right now. All right, so here's what I want I want to tell the people while okay, at first, okay, before I out on the last podcast. Rightly so. Okay, so here's the back story The back story was we were Jeffrey Epstein, right? So we as in me and Pastor So we wanted the, the, the And we were over it. And we were trying to rush Right? And we honest, I think probably If if that and ended on a goofy you saying this is not right. Um, and again, you coming from a, from a place that I think makes sense. And that's what we're going to Because you, you, you were of sexual abuse? Because really, this is what And we didn't do it justice. I apologize to you, but I also apologize to you in public to everybody, because you were you were right. You're absolutely right. We didn't handle that right. We talked about it. And then I had the idea. I say, listen, what better way to talk about this from someone who has the unfortunate experience of going through that. So I just wanted to give the And this is an amazing woman of Her name is Tuesday. We're recording on a Thursday. I have this ongoing joke with Yep. You know, but I just first of all, I want to say thank you for doing that because we needed to hear that. Thank you for hearing me. You know, because it's a lot of abuse, people don't hear you or those sort of things really And so I thank you guys, both of Yeah, absolutely. And I think we needed that, I think we both agree that we And again, I think it's almost like I see it now as a as a God thing, right? That it was almost like God conversation because I believe and I hope so. But before we go there. Right. I wanted to start with something Right. Your name is Tuesday and you do That's it. Murals by Tuesday. So tell us a little bit about Like what did that come from and where did you get the passion to do that? So I was always into art. You know, it was the only one of the only things I was ever really good at and felt confident in. It was a great way to express you know, as a young adult. I was working as a waitress in My family, my husband and myself, my first husband and myself. We had moved to Florida for Everyone said it's cheaper It's great. Well, we moved there and it wasn't, you know, it was cheaper, but the wages were next to nothing. And so I started waitressing. And during my time waitressing, during the holidays, people were like, huh, what a cool job. I would love to do that. So I started praying about it know, I would love to do that. Lord, would you open a door? And years went by. It was a few years. And then my manager said, hey, paint the storefront windows. Does anyone know anyone? He didn't know I was an artist and I was like, hey, I want to try it. You know, pick me, pick me. And he did. He gave me the opportunity and it came out great and I loved it. So I took pictures, excuse me. And I went all over town with everyone what I could do, and I. No. You're good. And I asked if they'd like to have their windows painted as well. And so many businesses said yes. And that started my career. I quit my waitressing job a just started pursuing this. And it went pretty well there, you know, but the wages there are lower. Um, the following Christmas, we What year was this? Nineteen ninety six, nineteen from high school. Get out. Come on. Oh my goodness. At that point I had three So it was a wild time. Uh, we came home on vacation, it was Christmas and there were And I went, oh, this is this Let's think about moving home. And so we did that. We came home within the next few I, um, donated some windows and I put my name and number on the businesses, if you like it, you And they all liked it. And people started calling and Now, I've been doing it for over thirty years and every day I'm like, I get to do something I love and I'm getting paid for it. Like that's a, that's a dream. It's a dream and it's an answer You know, all those years ago when I started praying for it and God answered that prayer, you know, so over thirty years now. Yeah. You've been painting. Yep. That's amazing. How many how many do you think Um, well, a couple of hundred. At least a couple hundred. Couple of hundred. And those clients, most of them And so I go out there and clear scraping my husband now that that part of it. And then I go, Doug. And then I get to go and paint And I do a few stores in a day That's awesome. Yeah, that's so cool to do paid for it, right? That's everybody's dream right It is. And it's a happy job because when I get there, the businesses are happy to have their windows done. They love the changes. And then the customers, people they stop and talk. And every day I get to talk to And like even yesterday, there was a little like a little girl, like four years old and she had a Wednesday Addams T-shirt on, and we struck up a little conversation. I said, oh, you're an artist And when you say that to kids, So, you know, it's just it's a So me and the kids have this When we, when we drive by a we're looking for, is it is it, You know, we're always looking Oh, that's so cool. It's one of your work, so it's Thank you. And it's a cool thing to see, Thank you. So your walk with the Lord, Um, because when I asked you about it, right? This was thirty years ago. So how did you come to Faith? So my mom was a very strong And from the time I can, the first memories I can remember, like sitting at the window and having my my little arms on the windowsill, looking at the clouds. And you know, when like the rays And I remember my mom saying to What are you looking for? And I said, I'm looking for I'm waiting for him to come And I just he was always there, But I lived in a very chaotic, I mean, crazy and but my mom was with us kids. She always, you know, read us I can remember sitting on the on of my siblings. There are seven of us and mom And um, I didn't start really Lord though until I was pregnant And I remember thinking, I don't kind of environment that point my child to grow up in the same And I went to bed one night and I had this dream and it was horrific. I was in the car and I looked beside me, and he was pointing And he said, that baby is mine. And I just woke up and I just It was it was a Sunday. And I went to the altar that Sunday, and I dedicated my life to the Lord and started really trying to serve him at that point. Wow. That's heavy. It is. And, you know, I feel like that for my child at the time. But then my future children and mean, as you know what my story day one, and it's been my job to pray for them. And every one of them I've seen They may not be serving him the way that I wish they would, but I know. I know that I know that they're I know that you know, eventually And for those who don't know how So I have four biological children and I have two stepdaughters. Um, right now I have two of my And, um, you know, we have some Um, but I know where they are. I know what they're doing. I know who they're with. Right? Yeah, yeah, definitely not easy. You know, we want to talk about Um, but before we get into your again, part of the reason why going to talk about the Jeffrey Right. Everything that goes with it. Right. And the, the forgotten part is Right. And for me, one of the more I really thought about Jesus says, if you. If you cause any of these little well put a millstone around your And that's how serious he takes And and that's why I think, uh, like, man, we really got to talk Mhm. And again, it's uncomfortable, but I think it's a needed conversation. Yes. What what has been your unfortunate experience with with sexual abuse? So personally, myself, um, I that I grew up in. And unfortunately, when you grow are no real boundaries. There is no protection around There's no one watching out for Right? And, um, as a young girl, I old and we moved a lot and we the house had some fields behind leading to the fields. And I loved still loved to go for a walk in fields or in the woods. And I was going to walk and that path and a truck drove up his window and he just know, gave me his name. His parents owned the house that was just very friendly. And he would now and then pop You know, I'd be in the fields and he would show up or, you know, I'd be walking down the road and he would stop and say hi. And I thought, oh, this is so You know, someone's being nice Um, and I was starved for I was starved for someone to You know, one of the horrible things that my my father would say was. No one will ever want you. You know, you're so ugly. You know, it was. It was. He was cruel that way when he Um, and so here was this man paying attention to me, and I didn't really think anything of it. You know, I thought he was just He was a married guy. What does he want with a kid, you know, a thirteen year old child. And obviously what he wanted was And I was perfect for the You know, I was really looking And, um, it started with a hug. You know, he would give me a kiss, and then he would want to I love you. If you love me, you know. You know, we'll have sex. Don't you love me? And I thought, well, I guess you And so I gave in, um. And I never wanted to, and I, it was not something that I enjoyed. He would pick me up from my walk to the bus stop and he would drop me off about, you know, half a mile from my junior high school. And this went on a few times a week and it happened for several years. Um, and it was just, it was experience with love and with and sex and, um, it just, it And when you're that young and someone takes such advantage of you, you know, you just always feel, like, embarrassed and ashamed and, you know, you feel dirty. Um, and unfortunately, we lived out and I can remember his telling him, you need to lock I'm thirteen. I'm thirteen, you know. And, um, his mother confronted away from her son. And it was I was labeled as the And I was just a kid, you know? So that's my experience with my And I've. When once the Epstein files girls, they would hold pictures this is me when I met Jeffrey. And so I started thinking about myself and looking at pictures of myself. I'm like, I was such a kid. You know, I was just he took never get back. But God can restore it, right? Like he can, he can make it for some reason inside of me. And I don't know what the reason with it, let him decide what he And I've been able to share with days those things. And, you know, it broke him as those things had happen to me. So we're having these hard conversations, but we're having them. Yeah. Yeah. And it's a shame that. No one came to your aid. No one? No. How did your family respond? The same. The same. You know, my dad would call me. I don't know what words I can He'd call me a whore because he done, you know? And, uh, the day that he found out about it, um, they picked me up from junior high school because they. I had left, I was writing a letter, a Dear John letter to the guy that I was having the affair with. And my dad found it. I foolishly had left it on his And when I came home, um, the to the junior high to pick me up person was standing in my dining father was showing him the note I know I love her like a sister. I don't know what she's talking No, no, no, I just love her like So. Even my parents didn't come Wow. Yeah. So what did that do to that MM. Well, it made me think that have sex, you know? And I know sometimes it turns just don't want to be touched. And I just thought that know, that was my identity. That was how people were. Men were going to love me if I And so I, I did that and I got Um, and I remember when we moved this person's brother in a store me a look and saying, oh, I and, and when I see them now, I I'm like, oh my goodness, I And the person who did that to try to say hi to me and have And it never owned it. Never. No no no no no, no. They were town that I lived in. And they Estella. Wow. So I think that the Epstein, that up, you know? Of course. Yeah, it's it's it's so, um. I don't even know what the word It's so, uh, disturbing. Yes. That these are people with a lot Yes. Right. And in a way, right now, I think one of the things that they all do and it's it's cover for each other, right? It's basically a whole big cover And it is. And God knows how high up the Right? And it's demonic, I would think. It is. It's absolute evil. You know, it is that kids are being used in this way, you know? And then I think sometimes too, it's the reason why this conversation to me is important is because sometimes we just see numbers. Yes. Right. But you're not seeing a person, So how did you begin to again, I right word, but how did you I think really when I first came that part of me. I would see like younger girls in the church and younger women, and God would really tell me specifically pray for that one, you know? And even now I can kind of tell who's coming from a broken place. I can be in a room full of one is hurting. And that's because of the way that I was hurt, the way that I was scarred. We carried we carried a certain Um, and so he started to heal to speak life into it. You know, I talked to, I've experience with it before. I talked to my husband because They're women. I wanted to warn them, you know, Um, and just trusting him that And who would have thought all those years ago as that little kid that was being abused, that I'd be sitting across from you talking about it openly, you know, instead of being ashamed of it. I'm not ashamed of it anymore. It wasn't my fault. I was a kid, you know? And how many kids need to hear You know, because from what I I don't know if this happened with you, but I've heard many times that they blame themselves. Yes, in a way. Did you find yourself doing Oh, absolutely. I shouldn't have been wearing You know, I shouldn't have done I shouldn't have laughed at his You know, I shouldn't have But I couldn't protect myself. I was a child. You're just a kid, right? Right. It's so heartbreaking. It is. Um. So. So with that in mind, what Because again, if you haven't experienced it, you you probably don't know. But what should they know about I think they should know that we sense of our identity has been Right? Think about your own body, the parts that you know you don't taken that and used it for their And it just rips away this sense Like I no longer was who I Excuse me. Um, and I think people should the blame with us all the time. And to hear someone say it's not Like you didn't do anything wrong just because you wore those clothes or you acted that way. No one has the right to take A woman has a right to say no. A know, this happened to me, and should protect me, not not So I think, um, I've talked to who I know have had sexual you want people to know? And what they want people to We're embarrassed. It's still painful all these You still carry those scars. I still react in a certain way sometimes when someone touches me. Even though I think those parts kind of like at the surface. But now when God brings them up, it's like, okay, God shed light on this. Like what? What's done in darkness is the And the abuser stays in the They don't want to come into the But when we bring things into the light, that's when God can heal them. That's when God can use them and that's when they lose their power. So yeah. And what what is the best way to been a victim? Just listen to them, come them and believe them, no matter matter how gross it makes you details of things. Just listen. Just give them voice. What would you say to someone They are the victim and they They feel ashamed and What would you say to them? I would say find someone you can Someone who's going to listen to Someone who is going to be your Someone who is going to lock This is not going to happen to I'm here for you and we're going Yeah. So. You have had quite a life. Yep. I don't think it's, uh, crazy to In my opinion, you've been Yes. You know, not just with what but with your kids. Yes. Um, for people who don't know, battle of opioids. Yes. Um, we believe that, like you said earlier, they in heaven, they had a relationship with Jesus. I got to see that personally for Um, but as a mother. As a mother. Right. Um, how have you cope and dealt Um, some days I cope really First and foremost, I fall, am just can't take it anymore. Um, I just, I have a really good Um, I have an amazing husband who has supported me through it all. He's been through it right with And I have leaned on the church You know, you guys have come I remember losing Caleb. And I have a memory of you And Bill Russell with you and Daryl and right along, like, right immediately you guys were there. Um. And when Max died, same You guys were there, you were in And just knowing as big as our You love my boys. You love, um, our whole family. The way that I cope is, you stay in bed, and I just. I allow myself a certain amount of time to feel all the feelings. And then the next day, it's Now I need to get up and I need And I try to live in a way that Uh, they were both such peaceful friends to everyone. And so I try to live in a way that would honor them by being, um, a loving person, by being someone who has the opportunity to still love, to still instill, um, life into other people because I'm here and they're not. Right. So those are some of the ways Um, I also take medication. I was suicidal after we lost I did not want to live. There was just no way I could right? Losing one was horrific. Losing two was just. It just wrecked me. Yeah. Um, so those tools are in my that's what I need at this Yeah. Yeah. Before I ask the next question, because as you were talking, I Yeah. You know, such, like you said, You know, I think about Caleb. It's crazy hair, you know? It's crazy outfits. Yeah. It's like he was eccentric, Oh. He was. Yes. And I think about one of my last was, you know, we're listening Yeah. In the you know, I didn't know you know, and it was. That was so cool. And then his baptism. Right. How powerful that was, you know? So I just want to take a moment again, Real human beings, right? Right. Who had a battle? Yes. Right. But that doesn't define them. Nope. You know. So that's the thing that I think that I'm sure you've seen in more than than any of us is that misconception, the stigma, right? That comes along with that in almost like not seeing the person, right? What, what have you seen, Like, so close the So I can remember with Max when something that helps someone, If they use, they, they don't get the high, they could get very sick. You know, it was just something that he took for years and years and years. But when we would go to the clinic to pick it up, there were, you know, he was looked at like, like a less than, you know. And he would I can remember him like, mom, you have no idea. Like how, how embarrassing it And I can remember him, you Sometimes he was high and just like look at him like he was so Um, the same with Caleb, with He had always been had it all And then when he started using drugs, he lost all of his friends, you know, no one was calling. And it was just he lost it all. And he had been like the social Um, so seeing the way that they within our own family, people house because of the drugs that the past, even if they weren't So the stigma that goes along with any other disease where we we're championing for them, is for them with, um, addiction, It's like, you know, a little talk about it more often now, They're not treated the same. And you've been an advocate for Right. What what are the things that that the the average person is So even when they come out of it let's say it's hard for them to The things that we can manage. Say, go get your license. You know, you need to renew your That is like climbing a mountain The, the most simplest things, insurance, making the doctor's can't wrap around those things can't use today. How am I not going to use today? What am I going to do today? You know, that's all they're So the normal things that we challenge for them. And I think people think, oh So they must, you know, just get No, it's not that easy for them. So I think it's important to And a lot of times it's not just A use. A lot of times it's mental Wow. See that? That right there is not on my No. Right that those things go Yes. Right. Um, and what what would you say then is some of the things that especially family members, right? What are some of the things that family members could do to, to help? Because sometimes I think the to feel like you're, you're, uh, their struggle, right? Enabling them and enabling them. Right. So what's, how do you live in So one of the things that I phone numbers for them. These, you know, this is who you And I would sit with them, you over this together. If you struggle, let me know. Um, so those kind of things helpful for the boys. Um, as, and loving them, I with know, tough love, you know, Don't take their phone call, kick them out of the house, all those things. and I thought those were the Because I felt like I had And then when Max was Now, now we were taught. Love the addict. Now we were taught. Come alongside them. You know they need this love, And I just wrecked me because I was like, I did it all wrong with Caleb. You know, I thought I was doing the wrong thing. Um, so with family members just coming alongside them, loving on them and supporting them, not enabling them. Um, someone once, I think it was never work harder for their work for themselves. So there's a and that's tough. Yeah, it is, because it's a tough balance to figure that out. Yeah. Yeah. I would say especially as a mom, Like, yeah, you want to nurture You want to do everything you You want to speed up the process how, how, how was your the midst of their of their open with you about it? They talked to you about it. Max was very open, like he would I didn't even want to know, but Caleb was more embarrassed about He didn't want anyone to know So, you know, he would really bottle it up inside and it wouldn't come out until, you know, he needed to go to treatment again. And then he'd tell me things, but still, not everything like Max would. Yeah. So it's case by case. Yep. Right. It's not one size fits all. No. Just like their own. Just like your kids. Like each personality is They each need you to approach Your parenting style a little So it was the same with with the It was the same. And again, same thing that I sexual abuse thing, right? But if, if someone is listening But they're there. The Caleb's right. They don't want to talk about Right. What would you say to those Oh, boy. I would say you got to open up. You know, it's not going to. Nothing's going to heal in the It's the same as like with the It's if it's in the dark. It has power. But once you bring it to light, Once you have someone to really talk to, someone to help you walk through it, it's going to make it may not cure it, but it's certainly going to make it easier. Yeah. Yeah. What have you seen again? Because I know you've been in what have you seen? Again, this may not be the right word, but that that actually works. Jesus. That's it. And that has been the hardest church and seeing other people thriving, that are living the boys were going to live. If my prayers could have saved today, you know. And God saw a different way to And so, um, I think it's just, it's Jesus and its accountability and its community is huge because living outside of community, you're you're easy. The devil's going to peg, you But if you're in a community and you're struggling and other people hear that you're struggling, they're going to help you. So I think that's, that's what's Yeah. And with the what was Freedom Crew and then something new crew. My boys were both part of that. And I've seen people that were They're still here and they're have conversations about my boys know, I remember when Max said meetings or I remember Caleb part of that community, even And when I had the opportunity to serve in that community, I just I just loved it because it made me think this is what my boys were experiencing when they were here. This is the love that they were This is the community that they Yeah, yeah. How have you been able to to midst of all of this, because Some people stop believing, How will you being able to still Some of it's fear. You know, I think, um, if these terrible things could happen and I'm under the umbrella of God's protection. Right? What on earth? What else could happen if I And I just I know where my boys And I know that when I'm serving I'm closer to them. You know, there's God's given me worship when I have my arms just picture my boys there doing At the same time. But they're there in person. Yeah. So that's really, that's helped Yeah. I remember, um, personally being so, uh, challenged and inspired by you because I don't know if you remember there was a season we were doing crew in the morning? Yes. You know. And and you would say just Just just having the show up. And to me, that was so the crew, you have different to know where you were going showing up, it was really a huge I felt like I was challenged in And so I just want to commend Thank you for being willing to show up, because I think half of the battle is showing up sometimes, right? It is, you know, and and I know Yep. You know, like, seriously, he's, He is. I'm so glad God brought you guys Me too. You know, uh, but that support What about the people that are But I don't have anyone like What would you say to those Aren't you lucky? You mean anyone like the kids No. Your husband? Oh, well, you know, I was going If you don't have someone like Yeah, he is my he is my Right? So I'm, you know, artist willy Just go, you know? Oh, that sounds fun. Let's do this. And Doug is very you know, he's He's a he's he sees facts, I see Yeah. So he's really balanced me out. And that's one of the things my mom said when she was still alive and she said, wow, you've just you've really balance each other out. I see he's, you know, getting a getting a little bit stronger. So yeah, if you don't have a Shout out to Doug again. We just love Doug. We're gonna have to bring Doug We're gonna have to, you know, He's probably here somewhere in Probably somewhere, you know. Um, is there anything that that you think needs to be said when kids, with their battles. I think for parents, for Um, goodness, as young as ten and eleven, you need to be aware. You need to be aware of who, who they're hanging out with, what they're saying, get Ahold of that cell phone because there is so many opportunities for the enemy to get in and just, you know, make yourself do the hard things. It's hard to look through your You know, I can remember having I get nervous, I do, I would my bedroom crying like, how am I How do I talk about this with But you have to do the hard And I did those hard things, you successful, you know? Well, worldly success, The biggest, most important a parent is my kids know Jesus, My kids are all going to heaven. I've seen every single one of Yeah. You know, Don't don't, uh, don't Please don't do it. And speaking of church, right? Because again, we're, we're all always want to grow. And that's why I wanted to have What about you? Do you have a message for the church when it comes to these things? Because we might be missing it, Um. Do I have a message for the I have a message for the men of Please be the men. Be the men that will stand up Right? Um, it's as as women. And I don't want to sound like, But hasn't Satan been after women and girls since the garden? Yes. Right. And if there's no one, no one around us putting up those perimeters where we're just out there open and he can come at us. But when we have those praying praying fathers, it's going to Yeah, yeah. Amen. Amen to that. Um. Right now, obviously, the prevalent in society right now, to cover it up. Cover it up. You know what, again, this is think a lot of us have. But what would you like to see Oh, I'd like to see him fall. I'd like to see him all fall. You know, there's people high up in the government that are very involved in this, that have no right to be in the positions that they're in, and they're being protected because they're in the positions that they're in. Right. And they have all this power. And, you know, with the redactions, I mean, it's there, what wasn't supposed to The victims were in there, their kind of things. There's no protection there, you they may and then rebuild. That's what I would like to see. I'd like to see them held Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I heard someone say, you know, let the people decide, right? Right. Just tell the truth and let the But we live in a world of lies. And I don't know if we're going People willing to tell the Because, I mean, it's the truth truth that's scary, right? For a lot of people. Um, well, I want to say thank this conversation with us. I think we needed to have this Thank you. And we and it's one of those conversations we need to keep having. Right? You know what I mean? Because it's not one of those You just, you know, do it once But I really believe a lot of this, you know? Um, would you be opposed to at reaching out if they. Not at all. I'd be happy to talk to anyone Okay. I just wanted to put that out Um, because again, uh, you can someone who understands where Right? Right. I always tell the church that, you know, not everybody's going to feel comfortable talking to me. You know what I mean? I'm the guy with the title, you know, in front of my name, you know? I always joke all the time. My first name is not pastor. You know what I mean? Um, but a lot of times, you know, that that comes with that as well. But my prayer is that if anyone they're loved, that we, we love And there's people willing to have these conversations, you know? Right. Would you be willing to pray specifically for those people, but also for those who have family members who are battling addiction? Absolutely. Father God, thank you so much Lord, you orchestrated this day And Lord, I thank you that You're going to you're going to use this talk, Lord, to spur on more conversation. Yes, Lord. Father, I pray for victims in Anyone who's listening to this Who has been abused sexually? Who is being abused? Lord, father, I pray that you I pray that the shame and the you would take away from us, Lord, with your peace, with your Lord, you wash us clean, Lord, Father, I pray for the families with a loved one and addiction. Lord, I pray for the mothers. Lord, I pray that you strengthen Lord, protect their hearts. Lord, give them wisdom. Give them discernment, Lord, to know where to help and where to sit back. Yes, Lord. Father, I pray for the people substance use disorder. Lord, heal them. This is just an absolute evil. Lord, heal them and make them Lord, in Jesus name I pray. Amen, Amen, Amen. Thank you so much, Tuesday. Thank you. We're recording on a Thursday. Never gets old, never gets old,