SPEAKER_01 0:01

Welcome to the SauceCast. Alright, welcome to the SauceCast, ladies.

SPEAKER_05 0:08

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 0:09

I want to first of all just say thank you for being willing to have this conversation. I want to give the audience the background of this conversation and how we came about before we get into it. But it was uh a couple of weeks ago that I was preaching on the war of worldviews, and we talked about different ideologies that's affecting our society. And one of them was the LGBTQ slash transgenderism, everything that's going on in our nation right now, and that's affecting so many people. And you pulled me aside uh after service and told me about your story and how that affected your your daughter. Yes. And so I said it would be great for us to have this conversation because I think people need to know what's really going on and and how much uh that sometimes parents aren't even aware of what's happening in in our school systems or what our kids are thinking about, right? So that's why we're having this conversation. And before we start, I want you guys to introduce yourselves before we start.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

So I'm Irina and I'm Victoria.

SPEAKER_01 1:10

And how many kids do you have? I have four kids. Four kids. I have four girls. Yeah, and Victoria is number one.

SPEAKER_00 1:16

One number one. Number one. All right.

SPEAKER_01 1:19

How how's how does it feel to be number one?

SPEAKER_05 1:23

I'm pretty much second mom.

SPEAKER_01 1:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:25

So that's a lot. Yeah, it's a lot to be number one.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

But it's awesome though. It's a great responsibility. I love it.

SPEAKER_05 1:32

I love all my sisters. Yeah, I like my babies.

SPEAKER_01 1:35

And how old are your other kids?

SPEAKER_00 1:37

So I have 19, and then I have 17, almost 18, and then 11 going on 12.

SPEAKER_01 1:43

11 going on 12. I'm right there, you know. I have three girls, two, no, three boys, two girls, you know. The different ages, almost almost at the end of F 19, 18, 15, 12, and 10, you know. So just beat you guys by one. But I always like to start by talking a little bit about your story, right? Give people a background of of who you are and and how we got here, you know. So if you don't mind, tell us a little bit about your story.

SPEAKER_00 2:13

So I came from Russia when I was like nine years old. And uh we lived in New York for a while, and uh we had a very like uh so my parents were Jewish, so there was always like that search because in Russia you can't be anything but like Russian and communism, so there was no like religion. So when we came here, we dove right into the fact that our roots were Jewish. So my mom started we started going to the synagogues and strayed away from that. And then um when I was 16, my mom got saved um because she met some friends who were Christian and started going to church, and then we found a church that was like Jews for Jesus and started going to more messianic church. And this is in New York? This was in New York. Okay, and then we moved from New York to Virginia, where my mom started going to a Lutheran church, and so you know, so we went with her, and uh I just remembered that there was a time where she would she always had a Bible on her. And I never really I was like, I never really understood, like why do you always have like this tiny, tiny little I literally see this tiny little pocket Bible always in her purse, always. And uh about 10 o'clock at night, she'd tell us all goodnight and go upstairs and lock herself in her room with her Bible. And I never understood, like, why are you doing this? Like, what's going on? Why why do you keep doing this? And obviously it was always open, the door was always open, and sometimes I'd find her reading, and sometimes I'd find her kneeling, and I was like, okay, this is what she does. But now as a parent, after I got saved, I understand very deeply exactly what she was what she was doing. She was speaking this mo these moments into our lives at that moment. Yeah. She was having her time with God, she was being rooted in the word. So um, yeah. Um about two and then we strayed away, like we strayed away from God, we strayed away from all of it. Um, lots of anger towards God for different reasons. Um my mom had cancer, she passed. I had difficult relationships. How old were you when your mom passed? Um, she passed I was oh my gosh. In my 30s, right in my 30s. Um she had cancer and I didn't understand why. Yeah. Obviously, like why her, she was the only parent we had. Um, and there was like she believed in you and she prayed to you and she you took her.

SPEAKER_01 5:02

Your dad was never in the picture?

SPEAKER_00 5:03

Um, not really, back and forth. My parents got divorced when I was right 11 years old. Okay. Um, and uh there was a very difficult time back and forth between us and uh now we're our relationship is rebuilt and I just accept him for who he is. He is um how many siblings? So I have me and my sister. Okay. Yeah. Are you the oldest? I'm the oldest, yeah. And uh so I uh I strayed away from from God and from I was angry and uh didn't want to have nothing to do with him, and to the point where I didn't want my kids to even know him because I didn't think he was a caring father. And uh so when about two years ago, when my nine-year-old came to me and said she wants to go to church, I was like, that's not something we do. Like that that's not us. Like we don't do God. We are we were very um we lived a very woke. We c we kind of fell into like that woke, like head first. And when you talked about like the Trojan horse, and that's exactly how it was, because when I did the church thing and I went there and I there was never um I didn't see grace. I saw um stick with a man that beats you, um, pray over him and he'll get better. And I was like, wait a minute, this community is like, no, get away from that, run the other way. And they were very supportive, they were very kind, they are very kind human beings, they were um very um like encouraging in certain situations. So we did the whole thing. We did the pride, we did the the drag queen story time with my little one. We we did it all. We did the whole thing. Let's back up a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 7:05

How did that how did that start? Because you said you strayed after your mom passed, right? And kind of strayed away from God and church and all of that. And how did it go from that to we're gonna go almost like completely the other way?

SPEAKER_00 7:21

Um, okay, so we lived in Virginia, then we moved to Mass, um, and had some difficulties here. Um, and my kids started struggling with mental health and um like seriously struggling to, and it started with my oldest and then trickled down to my second oldest and then trickled down to my 17-year-old. And the word supportive came out. You need to be supportive of your kids. And uh um at that time, Tori was kind of struggling with her identity back and forth. It was she went from um, I'm a girl, I want to be to date them. And uh when we get all these services in place, and I'm talking about like you talk about the LGBTQ mafia, the service mafia is just as big. Okay, so we had every service you could possibly think of under the sun, and they start and certain things just didn't seem right. I didn't understand what is this they them, like it didn't sit right in my heart. Like, what is what does that even mean? Like, what is that? Well, you just have to accept it and be supportive. You just have to accept it and be supportive. The reason your kids are struggling right now is because you're not being supportive enough, you're not um being encouraging enough, you're not um I don't know how to like loving on them the right way. Um so if you just did those things, it would get better and they would be okay. Um so when she said that they were they them, it was okay. They were they them. It got to, you know, I was like, identify as whatever you were, just don't die, don't kill yourself, just get better, yeah, just feel better, just just be okay, don't don't don't kill yourself. Stay out of the mental institutions, please. And uh it got to the point where you know they were like, here's a book with 27 different pronouns you could use. And I'm like, okay, so I read the book. And always the word supportive, you need to be supportive, you need to be supportive, you need to be supportive. And um we were like all in, like, hey, all right, I'm gonna be supportive. I'm gonna be supportive of the fact that you want to be date them, then I'm gonna be supportive of the fact that you want to be a him, and then I'm gonna be supportive of the fact that we're gonna go to all these things, but I'm watching still the mental health decline, and I'm still watching more services being implemented, but we're still being supportive. Yeah, and um, it is a very scary thing when you are sitting at a table and it is you and you have like 12 experts that are looking at you and are going, um, if you don't support your kid, yeah, your kid is gonna die. If you don't um honor what they're saying, your kid is gonna die. Um so you don't want obviously that's the scariest part as a parent to to have that continuously put on you is the fact that if you it is your fault, um they were born in the wrong body. And of course, as a parent, you're like, oh my god, oh my god, what did I do? What if they were supposed to be a boy? Like I have control over you know over that. I don't. Um, what if they were supposed to be a boy? Like I don't want them to die, so what is it? So what's the big deal? Like so we went with they them, then we went to social transitioning them, and that's basically at like 15, I want to say, we started calling her he him, and uh we started like going to all the LGBTQ stuff, and uh yeah, and uh then um the pride parades and life wasn't getting better, it was just becoming heavier.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

Yeah. So let me so let me ask you, when when did that begin for you? When did that whole mental battle struggles begin for you?

SPEAKER_05 11:54

Um honestly, probably back in like elementary school, because I was getting picked on a lot. I was I was a fat little kid and I realized that you know all the little boys that were bigger weren't, you know, being picked on as much as the girls that were bigger. So I started to think like maybe what if I was a boy, what if I was a boy? And then I didn't really say anything because we lived in Virginia. Okay. And I knew that Virginia was also just in general not the place to say something like that.

SPEAKER_01 12:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 12:29

And then we moved here.

SPEAKER_01 12:31

And And how old were you when you guys moved here to Mass?

SPEAKER_05 12:34

13 or 14? Okay. Somewhere around there. I think so. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 12:41

And I actually like made friends with some people, and I met somebody that I ended up dating for a little bit who was coming out as trans and was starting their transition. I was like, oh, that's something that can be done. And I just began to follow what he was doing.

SPEAKER_01 13:02

And this person was around your age as well?

SPEAKER_05 13:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:05

And then and then from there, right, like what continued to happen again from your perspective, because again, you only you can speak for yourself, but what were some of the the tensions within you and what were some of the like the mental struggles that you were having?

SPEAKER_05 13:19

Um honestly, for me, it was a lot of the like I still loved my dresses and my my pretty hair and my makeup and everything. But I thought once I had said, hey, I'm a boy, I had to keep going. Um, I thought that once I was like, you know, hey, I'm a boy, call me this, there was no take back seats. I had to just keep being a boy and doing the boy things, and it was I think that's a lot where my mental health just started declining more and more, was because I wasn't a boy, but I was a boy, if that makes sense. Yeah. So I was like this girl who wanted all the pretty dresses and the skirts and you know, all the girly things, and then I was sitting here like presenting as more and more of like a boy, I'm a boy, I'm a boy, until I almost started believing in myself.

SPEAKER_01 14:18

And who were you talking to about these things at that time?

SPEAKER_05 14:23

Um, I had a therapist, I had a therapist, we had all these services, like mom said, we had in-home therapy, mentors, my own private therapist, we had everything, everything under the sun. Yeah. And I would talk to them and they would tell me it was just dysphoria. And that I was just it was just because I wasn't in where I was meant to be. So it was I was just dysphoric, and that once I started all my stuff, I would start to feel better. And new f News flash I didn't because I did start, I was on testosterone for a year. About two years ago, I was on testosterone for a year. And I stopped because we went to go visit her dad in New York. And I didn't want to bring that stuff around my grandpa. So I stopped, and then I just didn't pick it back up when I came back. It was right around Christmas time.

SPEAKER_01 15:17

So when you were going through all this, everybody around you in in in your therapy and and counselors and they all were c encouraging you saying, This is dysphoria. Once you start to transition, everything's gonna be so much better. Right. And did you ever feel relief at any point that I'm doing this and it's gonna be okay?

SPEAKER_05 15:38

Did you ever there were there were like odd moments of relief? Like the first time I ever put on a binder, that like fleeting, that first moment when there was like no chest or anything, there was like a moment of like and then it just started right back up. And like I would take it, I would keep it on, it didn't help, I would take it off, it didn't help. It would just, it was like a one fleeting moment, and then it was just gone because it wasn't it wasn't real. Yeah, it was just like the oh, I'm telling myself this is what I need, so I got it, but wait, this isn't what I need.

SPEAKER_01 16:14

So when you went to go visit your your grandfather, how old were you at that point?

SPEAKER_05 16:18

Um, this was last year we went. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:22

So you were what 21? Yeah, and so you're an adult, right? You could do whatever you want. What when made you stop?

SPEAKER_05 16:30

Honestly, I just I came home and at that time I was living in a pastor's house. Um, this pastor did does preach of like acceptance to LGBT, but I was staying with him, and it was just like I came home and I tried to pick it up and like do my weekly shot. I just couldn't. I've been doing it for a year, every week for a year, and I came home and I picked it up and I just couldn't do it. I couldn't make myself do it, I couldn't talk myself into it. And at first I thought it was my fear of needles. Because I have a long and documented history fear of needles. Um so at first I thought that's what it was. You know, I took a break for a week, I missed it, so maybe it's just the fear coming back up. But then even like I talked to the doctor about it, and they were like, Well, there's like the gel and like the creams and all this, and I was like, I don't want any of that. I just don't want it.

SPEAKER_01 17:32

And how did they respond to that? Once all the people that were trying to encourage you to do it and now you don't want to do it, how was their response to it?

SPEAKER_05 17:38

Honestly, it wasn't it was just support both ways. Okay. Honestly. So like my doctors, they told me if I ever change my mind, I'm right they're right there. But that, you know, if that's what I wanted to do, that was my choice. Um, my therapist, she she was just there for me. She's been my ther I've had the same one since I was 14. So she was there for everything. And she was just she was just there for me. She was like, okay, if that's not who you are anymore, that's not who you are. So Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:11

And wait, how were you feeling as a mom when she's going through this?

SPEAKER_00 18:16

Um, heartbroken, obviously. Um, scared. Um, so when she first told me she wanted to start um transitioning, I was like, okay, we can do social. We'll do social, but I don't feel that you should do anything to your body until your body fully develops. And that's kind of was like my explanation for like, okay, I hope to buy some time while you come to reality. Um, but once again, I we weren't in church, we weren't praying, we weren't doing anything. We were just like uh just in my I just I couldn't like and obviously I'm I'm like I got I ended up with a therapist as well, and I remember sitting in her office and just crying, going, I feel like I'm burying my daughter. And she looked at me and she said, You can't look at it that way. That's wrong. Because you're just swapping kids. And I said, But that's not what I feel. I feel the sense of like immense grief.

SPEAKER_02 19:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:14

And I was shamed for that. You're like, you can't do that. That's wrong. Why would you grieve a child you still have? I said, but I I I don't. I'm watching my child die in front of my eyes, and that's exactly how it felt. Um, they told me that I should take pictures down of her when she was like a little girl and stuff like that, so that um it doesn't trigger her and that we are more affirming of her um gender. And I was like, okay, so we I took some of the baby pictures down and that killed me. I I remember sitting with her little baby pictures and just crying, like did it continuously felt like I was continuously burying my child, and it was just heartbreaking, just watching her struggle and suffer, and she kept asking me for like chest binders and stuff like that. I was like, no, we're gonna let you develop. You need to at least come into your own body before you start doing all of these things.

SPEAKER_02 20:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:14

And like, and just watching her her when she she I remember she's asked me for a ride one day to the to the um to the place that does the the hormones and all of that. And once again, we're being supportive. And the place is it's so funny because it's literally right up the street from you guys. Oh, really? It's literally right. Like it's that brick building Holland Place, I think it's called. Oh, okay, yeah, we can't. Yeah, it's right in there. Yep, it's right in there. And I remember sitting in the office and I was just sick to my stomach, and I didn't understand why. Um, and I said, I'll never drive you there again. I just feel sick, I can't do it. Um, so I never did. And um, it was it was killing me inside just watching this go down and suffering and hurting, but we still were like, okay, but at least she's gonna be alive. Yeah, at least she's not gonna die.

SPEAKER_01 21:11

Yeah. How was how was um your relationship with like from your perspective with your mom? Like your mom's trying to be supportive, but at the same time, she's feeling these tensions. How were you feeling with with her?

SPEAKER_05 21:23

Um It's like a back and forth. It's my mom's my best friend, but she's also in that time, she was also like felt like she was my worst enemy and my best friend. Because I knew I could tell her anything, she was she was my mom. Yeah, but at the same time, it was like I needed the binder and I needed this and that, and she was just telling me no and no and no, and I was like, Why don't you want me to be myself? That's what it felt like at that time.

SPEAKER_01 21:58

Yeah. And and what about um the rest of your kids? How how were they dealing with all this?

SPEAKER_00 22:05

Um, so they jumped right on board. They were like, Okay, so um it's a he, what's the big deal? Like, I st so I have four, and uh out of four I have three that are saved. Um so but right then it was like okay, sure, yeah, he, him, whatever. You know, you could you want to be a penguin, be a penguin. You wanna be a lamp, let me plug you in. It's fine, whatever. Um but so there wasn't ever like a um attention with it. It was just they made it very and once again we had like in-home therapy, which kind of helped them understand it better. Um, we had TCF involvement because of so many um suicide attempts by her and then my two other ones as well. Um, just the mental health um aspect was very, very big in our within our home. Um just like running rampid.

SPEAKER_01 23:10

And you and you're dealing with this, I take it as a single mom, right?

SPEAKER_00 23:13

No, no, I have a boyfriend. Okay. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 23:16

Was he was he helpful?

SPEAKER_00 23:17

Was he He was so he didn't he was not okay with the whole transitioning thing. Okay. Very much not okay with the whole thing. He spoke against it. He's like, this doesn't make any sense. Um threw the Bible out a couple of times. He was Southern Baptist, raised Southern Baptist, um, through the Bible quotes, and I'm like, don't ever speak that in this house. Like, what is wrong with you? Like, we don't even we what is wrong with you? Like, why would you? Like, do you want him to die? Like, what is wrong? What are you doing? Um, so he's you know, he's like overjoyed now. He's like, Thank you, Jesus. He's like, Oh, and it's so funny because he's like, you know, I used to pray for this, like secretly pray over for this. And I'm like, You did? Really? What? Because we didn't talk about God, we didn't talk about Jesus, like Bibles, like, don't even bring that into my home. We do crystals, okay. We did crystals, we did um, I remember that one of the visits from DCF, and I couldn't stand DCF. Like, you were just so like intrusive in my home all the time. I remember laying out crystals all over my house and like a little ball of salt water around the crystals, and I'm like doing little bets, like and I'm like, you're still in my home, and I don't understand why. This is supposed to keep you out.

SPEAKER_01 24:37

Oh, that's funny. So, so when did um when did it start the shift where now faith is coming in, Jesus is coming in? Like, when did that start to happen?

SPEAKER_00 24:48

So, about two two years ago, because my daughter's getting ready to turn 12. So she about two and a half years ago, my uh my sister started coming to church because her daughter wanted to go to church. So Gabby told my sister, she's like, I want to go to church. And um This is your youngest one who says This was my niece that told my sister that my sister, so my sister started coming to new life. She did her research and started coming to new life. And then somehow, I guess because they you know they talk and this and that, they're cousins. Anya, my youngest, her curiosity started to get she started to peak in the curiosity department. She's like, Mom, I want to go to church. And I said, You want to go where? I said, We don't do church. Like, you don't understand, we don't do church. You you see how these people act, okay? And at that time, you we were going to like drag queen story time, so there was a lot of that um watching like churches and Christians come into and just go off and all of this. And I'm like, Do you see how hateful they are? Yeah, they're so unaccepting, and um they're just that's not what we do. And she's like, But I want to go to church. And I said, Okay, well then go with your aunt. And she's like, Okay. So I called my sister, and my sister would take my daughter, and they would come here, and she's like, I love it here. And I'm like, What do you mean you love it here? So she would go to the youth to to um, she was in elementary school, so she would go to the little elementary kids classes, and she's like, I have so much fun there, and I'm making friends. And I'm like, Well, you make friends everywhere you go, like I that's not not a big deal. She's like, I love it here, and I said, Okay, well then keep going with your aunt. And then um one day she came to me and she's like, I'm going to church and you're gonna take me and you're gonna go with me. And I said, Excuse me, you're nine. No, you're gonna go with your aunt. So she put her little finger in my face and she said, If you can be supportive of your sister, of my sisters, I don't understand why you can't be supportive of me. Wow, look at that. And whatever the enemy uses for evil, God is gonna turn it right around and use it for his good words. So the words that the enemy used, you're gonna be supportive, you need to be supportive. That little girl opened her mouth up and said, I don't understand why you can't be supportive of me.

SPEAKER_01 27:06

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 27:07

And I said, Okay. So back then you were doing the three services, and we live in Fall River, and I have to, I worked Sundays. Um, so I was like, I work Sundays, you kidding me? Like, and this is the only day like I really get to like don't have to be in till later on in the day. So you want me to get up early and go to New Bedford to a church that I really don't want to be in. She's like, Yeah, yeah, and you gotta be supportive. And I said, Okay, no problem. So I remember the first Sunday, I said, I'm not even setting my alarm. She's gonna oversleep, and we're just not gonna go. Yeah, right. Six o'clock in the morning. This kid's in my face, fully dressed, nine o'clock, mom. Oh, that's awesome. Mom, wake up, we're going to church. And I said, Oh, I didn't set my alarm. She's like, it's okay. Something woke me up. Let's go. So I crawl out of bed, I get ready, fully ready for work for um, we get in the interstate. No, I didn't even drive the interstate yet because I just started driving. I just got my car. It was so weird because I haven't had a car for a really long time. And I just bought a car. And so I didn't get on the interstate. I took Route 6 all the way to Westport through Dartmouth. All the back roads. All back roads, because I was nervous to get on the interstate still, especially with my kid in the car. And so I drive to church, and uh here you are. You get up on stage, and the what's the first message you preach? Here I am was about the LGBTQ mafia. And I'm like, you have got to be kidding me. And I'm sitting with my sister, and my sister's like looking over at me, and I'm like, okay. All right, so I sit through the service, and I was like, Well, the music was good. At least the beat's good, so you know, and I leave, and then the next Sunday comes around and she's like, I'm ready, let's go! And I'm like, You have got to be kidding me, we're doing this again. At that point, was it just you two that came? It was just me and her because she wanted to go and I wanted to be supportive. Yeah. And I'm like, You do realize that they are literally against everything that we do. And she's like, It's fine. I'm like, you do realize that you have a brother. And she's like, it's fine. And I'm like, okay. She's nine. She's nine at this point. She's so funny. And so I get in the car and I'm driving, and she's like, and no Christian music on, just regular, you know, I got my Spotify playing through my connection, through my radio, Bluetooth, because I have an old car and I'm just, you know, like, all right, here we are, and we're going. I know nobody, right? This church is huge. I know nobody. So I sit with my sister again, and you know, she gets up and she's praising, and I'm like, I stand up and I'm looking around, and okay, then you come on and you do your sermon. And this went on for a couple of weeks. And then I looked at her, I said, Look, kid, I said, I need a Sunday off because I'm tired. I'm like wicked tired. So we're not going to church. Oh, really, mom? Come on. And I'm like, no, like, I I really, okay, I understand. God had other plans for me. Five o'clock in the morning, I'm awake. And I'm like, why am I up? It's five o'clock in the morning. What is happening? So I'm like tossing and turning. I'm like, I got my blanket. I'm like, I got my pillow. I'm like, nope. And then something keeps telling me, get up and go to church. And I'm literally arguing, and I'm like, I'm fighting, I'm arguing with myself. What kind of a product case argues with themselves? I must be insane. And I'm like, no, I'm going, and I'm literally going back to sleep. And I pull the blanket over my head, and you know, I wasn't going back to sleep. Now I realize I was wrestling with God at that time, and it was just so clear at one point.

SPEAKER_02 31:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:03

And he says, and you're gonna go by yourself. You leave your daughter at home, you need to come by yourself. And I'm like, I only go for her, and I'm like, what am I doing? I'm talking to myself in the middle of the night. It's dark, it's cold outside, I am talking to myself like a crazy person. So I get up, I get dressed, I sneak out of the house because the moment she she would know, she would know. She says, I sneak out of the house, I get in my car, and the whole way to church, I'm still arguing with myself. And so I'm driving to church and like I'm missing, I'm going past the exits. I'm like, I just need to get off the exit. Like, what am I doing? Like, why am I going to church? So I remember pulling up into the parking lot, still arguing with myself, going into the church building, and I sat in the middle aisle towards the back. I didn't tell anybody. He said, Don't, yeah. I was like, Don't like, don't tell anybody, just go to church. So I sat in the back, a first first seat, so I can like, and my foot run right out the door. And I remember when the Dog just came in and he's like, Hi, would you mind scooting in? And I looked at him, I said, buddy, I got one foot out the door. I said, So if I need to make a quick escape, yeah, I don't want to be rude. Okay. Oh, get called out or something, okay? I could just like belly crawl out of there, nobody would notice. It's fine. So he's like, okay. So I sat through the whole service. And uh you preached. I don't remember what you said. I just remember just like I don't know, like there was just and uh everybody went to the altar and I sat in my seat and I kind of watched everybody at the altar. And uh then as we were walking out, my I caught my sister's eye. She's like, why don't you tell me? I said, I don't know, I don't even know why I'm here. I still don't get it. Like something woke me up and wouldn't let me go back to sleep. So here I am. Um and as I'm driving home, I just have tears. Just I'm like crying, and I'm like, I don't understand why I'm crying. So I got came home, changed my clothes, went to work, came home, and I remember sitting, I said, if you are real, show me, show me, God, where have you been when this was happening, when this was happening, when this was happening? Where have you been? Yeah, like where were you? Yeah, I don't know. Sorry. Uh where were you, God? I don't get it. Like, why did you let all these things happen? Why did you let me get like in a relationship where um I was beaten and and exploited, and all of these horrible things have happened to me. Why did you allow the only person that's always been there for me? Why'd you take them from me? Show me where you were. Yeah. Show me. And the first thing he showed me was when I was pregnant with my 19-year-old now, I remember going to the doctor for the happy little ultrasound and the the little doodads that they do. And uh they looked at me and she said, they said she has no heartbeat and she has not she's not developing. So what you have is a dead fetus uh inside of you. So we're gonna schedule a procedure to uh basically uh take her out. And I remember going home and I was devastated. I was devastated. This was right around Christmas. My mother is a praying mother, right? My mother is a prayer warrior, and she just would not let let go. She's like, I just keep praying. She just kept praying, she just kept praying, she just kept praying. So Christmas came and went heavy heart, the whole thing. I'm like, this this is terrible. Like I was devastated. And uh we went I went for the for that lovely appointment. And before they did it, they did the little ultrasound, and there was the biggest, strongest heartbeat. She was still tiny, tiny and mighty, and she came early and she was a f she was a fighter. Um, but it was the strongest heartbeat. And I was like, he was like, I breathed breath into that. That's where I was there. And now he over the next few weeks he just revealed himself in all the places, in all the hurt, that he necessarily didn't take me out of it, but he was right there. Wow. That he kept his hand on me, that I didn't die in certain situations where I could have, but because he was there and that there was a greater plan for my life and for my existence. Yeah. And ever since then I've just it was it was like boom, there it is. There I am. He sat with me when I finally grieved my mom and right there in my car. He right he was like right there. I felt him. I think my PC belt sign went off, maybe. Um but uh he just keeps showing. Yeah. And then I started awkwardly preaching to my children, okay, because that's what you what you do, right? You're just like, wow, let me Bible thump you right now. Right, right. Um but I looked at my oldest and said, if you're gonna live in my house, you're gonna come to church with me. And I think the fact that she was respectful enough of those wishes and said, Okay, I'll go. And she started coming to church. And even when she lived with the pastor, that she still came here. Because she had other choices, she no longer lived with me. Yeah. Um, so instead of awkwardly Bible thumping her, I realized that I needed to give her to the one who made her.

SPEAKER_01 37:06

Yeah. How how was that for you when mom starts to telling you you need to come to church?

SPEAKER_05 37:11

Um, it was very strange at first because like like she said, we that dove right into everything.

SPEAKER_02 37:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 37:16

So it was like my mom who was like this accepting be who you are person, just suddenly like, no, no, you're going to church. I was like, whoa, that's weird. Yeah. Um, so it was very strange at first. We did definitely butt heads a lot over that. Yeah. But I came. Me and the kids I didn't want to be homeless. And I came. And I would, I remember I would, especially in the beginning, I would stand up with mom and I would look at her with her arms raised and I'd be like, that's weird. I'm not doing that. Um, and I would listen to the songs, and I'd be like, okay, the music's nice. And then I would sit down and I would almost fall asleep during when you would come up and you would start. I would, and mom would be like, Oh, you were so into it. I was like, Yeah. I was not. But then it was like there wasn't even like a moment that I can remember. It was just like a switch flipped. And it was like taking this serious. I'm coming to church. Um, I'm leaving the other pastor's house at seven in the morning to come to church in New Bedford with my mom. Even now, like I moved out now. I finally got my own apartment, and she picks me up so we can go to church. Um, and I check every time I'm like she drops me off on Friday, and I'm like, You're coming on Sunday, come get me for church, right? She's like, Yeah, I'll be here. I'm like, okay, just want to make sure. Um and there, like I said, there was no like real moment that I was like, Oh, I should start coming to church. Yeah, it was really just like I'm actually participating now.

SPEAKER_02 38:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 38:58

Because there there was a moment where I first began to believe in God, but I was like, no, I believe in him, but not in what you guys are preaching. Sure. So I believe that God is real. I believed that he was there, but I didn't believe that like what I was doing was wrong. I believed, like, you know, he made everyone perfectly. So maybe I'm supposed to go through this. Maybe that's why I wasn't born the way I was. Yes. The way I was supposed to be in my head at the time.

SPEAKER_02 39:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 39:30

Was because I was supposed to go through all the trials and it was supposed to make me stronger. I was supposed to, but I wasn't supposed to be the end goal. I see that now, but at the time I was like, maybe that's so I still didn't believe in everything that you guys were preaching. I just knew he was there.

SPEAKER_01 39:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 39:50

In the funniest way. But that's another story. Um and then I just I started coming, I started actually paying attention, I started taking notes, I downloaded the Bible on my phone. Um, I remember the first time I raised my hands with mom. I was like, I still feel silly, I still have to do anything. But I just now I can't I feel sad when I have to miss a Sunday. I'm like, I don't want to miss. I mean, see if I can move stuff around so I can do the things after I don't want to miss.

SPEAKER_01 40:22

Yeah. And when would you say it went from, you know, God is yeah, he's real, but I don't necessarily agree with what's being preached and talked about to when did you like reconcile the two? Where it's like God is real, but also his word is real.

SPEAKER_05 40:39

Honestly, it was it was right around somewhere between Christmas and my birthday of like last year. My birthday was like a week before the big blizzard. So I was trapped at home. I think it was like during that time actually. I was trapped at home. It was during the big blizzard, and I had nothing to do. We were all stuck. There was no you can't go nowhere, you can't do anything, we're all stuck. So um I would start to turn on worship music randomly. Um I would just it was weird. It was just like randomly. Like I I started to turn on worship music, I started to like read the little Bible that we you guys give out here, started to read mine, and it was just like oh it was just like an O moment. I was like, Oh, okay, okay, my bad.

SPEAKER_01 41:35

And what about the other kids? How how did they respond to mom saying, Hey, we're going to church?

SPEAKER_00 41:42

So um, Anya obviously she was the one that started this whole thing. Um Lyric, that was a that was intense, sh, but she was intense. Like I said, it was so much, there was a lot of chaos. So when you we talk about mental health, she was um the picture of destruction. Um, to where like there was zero peace in her. And I remember she would run away from home, we would have police officers in our house all the time. Um, there was a point where I had to have her removed out of my home for her safety, for the safety of my youngest one. Yeah. And uh I remember going to crew and we would just pray, and uh they didn't she didn't want to go. But you're 15. So if you want your phone, you're gonna come to church. And uh I remember her first the first time she went to youth camp. I made her go. Um, I made her go do the fundraisers, I made her go on Thursdays. Um, and I remember at one point she's like, I don't understand why you make me go on Thursday. I am totally anti-Christ. And I don't know what I was doing, but I like laid my hands on her and I like rebuked whatever was in there. I was like, get out of my car. Because she was in my car. She's like, I'm gonna leave this car. I said, No, you're not. So I locked the doors. I said, You keep this up. I said, I'm gonna rebuke all these spirits out of you as I drive around your school. You think you're embarrassed now, little girl. Um, but yeah, and then um, so she it was it was a battle with her. It was a battle with her. Yeah. Back and forth, back and forth. I remember um, but then when she went to her first camp, she came back a little different. Um there was a peace about her and she started coming to church willingly for a while. And then uh she kinda stopped and you almost saw like hints of chaos coming back. But at this point I knew what to do. So I hit my knees. I knew that there are battles. Because I got really started reading the word. Like there is a power in the Bible. There is power in the word. Yeah. And when you know it and you use it right, God's unstoppable.

SPEAKER_02 44:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:23

Like He is He is faithful. He says who He says, and it's gonna happen. Like so you just gotta give it time sometimes. It's not gonna happen in your time. So I hit my knees and your battles are one on your knees. Yeah. So I hit my knees and I was like, Lord, I was like, help me, help me, help me, help me, help me, help me. Just I don't know how. What I need, I just help me. And he did. Um I saw like there was a peace. There started to be peace, but there wasn't a willingness anymore. Um, there was like a shift in her once again, and she started to stray away again. Um so it was a it's a battle with her back and forth. There's been a battle back and forth with her. But um she's back. Um unfortunately, devastation had to happen in her life. Um in the beginning of July, um her boyfriend drowned. He was the kid, 17-year-old kid that drowned up atop a pond. Yeah. Um, and the cool thing is that she did bring him to church here a couple of times. And that she he did come to youth with her a couple of times. So he had knowledge of who Jesus was. Yeah. Um and the love, even though there was a rocky start with her, there was a point where she did this video while we were in service, just mocking the church and put it on full blast. And I don't I'm not on social media like that. I don't I can't keep up with all of it.

SPEAKER_01 46:08

I'm not either.

SPEAKER_00 46:09

And I got and I got word from a family member that this is what's happening, this is what she did. And I was like, I was embarrassed, I was ashamed. And I went to my crew and they were like, girl, we're gonna pray this. Don't even we're gonna pray this. And I said, Okay. So we prayed. And uh, so then this tragedy happened, and uh I remember right, it was like four days, four days before camp, four or five days before camp. She calls me hysterically crying.

SPEAKER_05 46:44

Mom's at work, by the way. Mama asks me to use my phone because her phone's broken, and she says, I need to use your phone right now out of nowhere. She just runs up to me in the living room, she's like, I need your phone right now. I need to call mom. And I think it's an emergency. So I hand her my phone. Yeah, she calls mom while mom's at work, and our sacred rule in the house is you don't call mom at work. Mom is a waitress and she's she runs the whole restaurant. You don't call mom at work because she's busy. Yeah, I was like, okay, it seems important.

SPEAKER_00 47:09

So I gave her the phone. Yep, so I pick up the phone and she's like, Mom, I need you to call Kim right now. I said, What? What's going on? I need to go to camp. Wow. I said, You need to go, you need to go to camp. You need to go to like our camp? You need to go to our camp? And I she's like, Yeah, I need to go to camp. And I'm like, Okay, yes, we're gonna go to camp. Okay. So, no fundraisers, no anything. It was like almost 400 bucks for her to go camp, and I gotta come up with this in four days. I said, and I said, Lord, if you put it on her heart, you're gonna make it happen. And he did. He did. Cam got in touch with me, we got talked back and forth, and she's like, it's all taken care of. You just have her show up. Like, don't even worry about it. It's been paid for. Don't worry about it. And uh so she goes to camp and uh I get phone calls from Camp every day. I need to go home. I said, You're not going home. I need to go home. You're not going home. I'm sick, I need to go home. You are not going home. Okay, my car barely makes it to New Bedford. You think it's gonna make it to New Hampshire? You are not going home, even if I drove a Cadillac, you're just not going home. And at one point I looked at her and I said, You do realize that somebody paid a price for you to be here. I said, somebody sacrificed something of theirs so that you can be here, so that you can receive a message. Thursday night I get a text message, and we used there's a couple of crew moms that got together and we decided we were gonna fast and pray over the kids in the camp. Yeah, because there needs to be a mighty move of the spirit through there.

SPEAKER_02 48:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:52

That these kids, we prophesize that these kids would linger at the altar, that there would be a shift in the atmosphere, that there would be all these things that would happen to these kids as they're there. And uh, I get a text message from Kim, while I'm in crew. I've heard the altar just fully like on her knees like this, and I'm like and I can testify to that because I was there.

SPEAKER_01 49:18

I was there, there was a shift, and there was everything you guys prayed, we witnessed. Because I was there for the first two days of camp with my wife, and my goodness, I there was no words. I'm getting chills thinking about even now. Right? I'm getting chills because my wife and I we looked at each other, we're like, there's no words for this. Like, what is happening in this moment? God is doing something supernatural. Yes, you know, so you guys pray as we're being answered in that moment. It was powerful to be there for that. I felt privileged to be there to witness that, you know. So praise God for praying, mom. Amen. Amen. So let me ask you this, right? So so it starts to get serious for you, it starts to get real for you, right? Um now, if you were to speak with a young person who is going through all of that, right? What would you say?

SPEAKER_05 50:16

I want to say I would tell them, you know, don't do it, all of that, but I know that's not gonna work.

SPEAKER_02 50:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 50:21

Because that's what I was told. Yeah, I was told that left and right, don't do it, it's against God. That's not gonna work. So I would tell them that, but I would also add on, like, you don't have to be afraid. Because a lot, a lot of my big fear was that if I came out as like, no, this isn't who I am, and I am Victoria, my friends weren't gonna be my friends anymore. My life wasn't gonna be my life, and it wasn't that way, it's not that way. All of my friends I had before, they're still my friends, and they still support me. And some of them are even like one of my friends recently got baptized. Like, I still have the same people, they're just with me now on a different journey. Yeah, and I will say a lot of especially for like younger people, a lot of it is like we want to fit in, we want to be with, you know, our friends that we made, our friends are going down this path, so we're gonna go down this path, and we want to stay with our groups and our communities. Something I would tell them is that if they're not gonna accept you, if they will only accept you if you transition and change, then they're not gonna accept you in general because you have to change for them to accept you. Right. I got lucky, all of my friends in my group they accepted me when I changed and they accepted me when I came back. Um and it I have seen that a lot throughout, because I am on TikTok and on the social medias. Um, so I have seen that like throughout that people are coming back and being like, no, I have this isn't this isn't me. Yeah. And their people still accept them. What I have noticed, however, is that when you transition the other way, those people that you were with don't anymore. Uh, for example, something I just saw not that long ago was that a man was married and he decided to transition into a woman, and his wife was like, No, I I don't like women, first off. Yeah, second off, this isn't so she left. And I did have a couple of people leave and stop talking to me when I first transitioned in. But I made a lot more friends coming back, I made a lot more community and a lot more meaningful. It wasn't just like, oh, I have all these people around me and they know and love me. It was more like, for example, Kimmy, I love Kimmy. Kimmy is like my best friend here. And the second we see each other, we hug and we jump and all it's excitement to see each other. And there's there wasn't really any of that before. It was like, you know, pronouns and we'll get you a binder and all of this, but there was no just joy to seeing me. And there's so much of that here.

SPEAKER_01 53:17

Yeah, yeah. And one of the things that that it's hard for people to understand is the tension that you're feeling, right? Yours going through all of that. Because there's it seems like there's two camps, right? You got the affirmative camp, right? And then you have the judgmental camp, right? And it's a hard place to be, right? I like I feel like I'm I'm misunderstood because people think I'm being judgy. I'm I don't want to judge, right? I want to expose the truth and and because I want you to be free and I want you to be yourself, right? But it's hard sometimes because I have to speak about these things. So it comes out as if I'm being judgmental and condemning and all of that, which in in reality I don't want to judge. I don't want to condemn. I really want to help. You know what I mean? But there's a tension there, right? Because sometimes people don't know how to live in the tension, right? So I guess what I'm trying to ask you is like, what is it that people are not understanding about what a lot of these young people are going through, like you did, right? What would you say to those people who are judging and condemning? Like, what are they not understanding? Does that make sense? Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 54:22

I will say a lot of it is we are, especially with the age that I started out at, we're all just like I hate to put out the like word that everybody used of like confused, but everyone at that age is confused. Yeah. Whether you're transitioning, whether you're not, you're everyone's confused at 14 years old. You don't know what's going on.

SPEAKER_02 54:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 54:44

All you know is that you see certain people being treated one way and other people being treated another way, and the clicks forming and everything. And a lot of us, we just want to find a click that doesn't like judge us and condemn us. And a lot of that is in you know the LGBT community because a lot of the community is very like, they're very, very kind people.

SPEAKER_02 55:09

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 55:11

Um, so you find that solace in there, but then you end up straying because you are around these kind people now, especially at that young age where you're maybe being bullied, or maybe you have troubles at home, or whatever is going on. So you find that solace in the people who are kind and who understand and who just they won't judge you because you have something to say, right? They'll just listen. Yeah, and a lot of that is where that comes from. Like for me, um, like I said before, I ended up dating somebody who was transitioning, and that sent me down that rabbit hole, and I found so much like care in that community because whether it was even if it was like outside of transitioning and outside of like any LGBT things, it was like if you need feminine products, we have them for you. If you need food, we have that for you. If you need someone to talk to, we have that for you. Yeah, and it's really, really hard to find that anywhere else. Yeah, and I think that's why a lot of people that age will come to the LGBT community because we are not we, they are here to talk. Yeah, they are they will listen and they won't judge you, they will just listen and be there. Yeah, and a lot of it is like validating, like you know, when you're mad at your mom as a kid and you're like, ah, my mom's this and that's that, and your friends are like, Yeah, that's what it's like. It's really what it's like, right?

SPEAKER_01 56:44

Right, right.

SPEAKER_05 56:45

Um, and it's just honestly, at least for me, because I can only speak on my experience. For me, honestly, it was a lot of struggles at home. So I was able to find a community that wasn't going to judge me for my struggles, wasn't going to judge me for being the weird kid or the chunky kid, yeah, or you know, the one with the dyed hair, because everyone there had dyed hair. Um, and it was just it was a place that felt like I could belong.

SPEAKER_02 57:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 57:20

And that's what a lot of people might that age want and need. And I feel like still even my age, like, it's hard to find places that you belong.

SPEAKER_02 57:28

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 57:29

Even in like, even in churches, I will say, like, I have friends who go to church and I have friends who have like brought and some who like then stick with it. Even and like even for me here, it's hard to find, it's harder to find people to talk to and belong with outside of the community than it is inside the community.

SPEAKER_01 57:55

Yeah, yeah. Thanks for sharing that, you know, because I think we need to hear that, right? Uh, because I remember um I um read a book by uh a professor who was gay, who came out and followed Jesus. And she said the biggest thing for her was in the gay community was the incredible validation acceptance, you know, the community that she had. And she said, when I became a believer, I kind of missed that. You know what I mean? It's like this, the only thing I missed about that community was just so so welcoming. And I'm like, man, we gotta learn about that, you know. We're like, we need to be more understanding of the fact that everybody's on a journey, right? And we can at least we can again find a way to support you without affirming the things that doesn't align with the will and the purpose of God, right? And that's what you're kind of saying, that in a sense, right? Um, and it's interesting because I'm listening to you here, and as I'm a father, so I'm like, I'm listening to you, and I'm like, man, you are a beautiful young girl, right? And somehow that got distorted somewhere, right? And in that, there's a tension of you trying to find who you really are, you know what I mean? And and so it's it's it's it's it's wild. I think some people have a hard time understanding that's like how can a beautiful girl like go through that, right? But not realizing that there's a lot of other things that's like you said, like troubles and hardships and mental health.

SPEAKER_05 59:18

And for example, like you said, you see me and you see a beautiful girl.

SPEAKER_01 59:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 59:23

When you're a teenager, you don't look in the mirror and you don't see that beautiful per girl or that handsome boy. You just see all the flaws, yeah, and you see everything that everyone's been telling you. You see, you know, oh, I got off called fat at gym class, now I see that. Um, somebody pointed out that my hair is too big in in history class, or I had to sit in the back of the class. So I saw that.

SPEAKER_02 59:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 59:49

So I cut it off. I got cut it short, like a boy. Um like you see when you look at yourself in the mirror, especially like I feel I know like all young people, they're all having their, but especially when you're going through that transition, you see yourself in the mirror and you just see everything wrong. You don't see like, oh, I'm a beautiful girl, or oh, I'm a handsome boy, or whatever. You just see, like, oh, my face is too round and feminine, my face is too angular and sharp. Maybe I could just switch over here, and my face is round and feminine, so I'll go be feminine. Yeah, my face is angular and sharp, so I'll go be masculine. You don't see really any of that beauty that you actually have inside of you.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:41

Which is really hard for a lot of young people to see, especially with social media and like all these pictures of like buff men and tiny girls and bikinis. It's hard. Yeah. Um, so you really don't you don't see it.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:56

Yeah. No, that that's that's very good. Um, because again, the tension of social media that I find is that that unhealthy comparisons, you know, that's the there's a saying, right? Comparison is a thief of joy, right? It robs you of the fact that you already have what you need, but you're looking at other people and seeing. So let me ask you this then. How do you see yourself now?

SPEAKER_05 1:01:17

Um, it's weird because for eight years I cut my hair short and I identified as a boy, and I did, and so it's weird because it's like I recognize myself and I don't. Because for like I said, eight years, I was just, I was a boy, I was a boy, I was a boy, and now I'm not, and I'm back to who I was supposed to be. So there is this sense of like I'm I'm back where I belong, you know, like like a puzzle piece fitting right back in. It just feels right again, but there's also that bit of like I don't recognize myself. Like, I've got my full face of makeup on today, and I'll look in the mirror sometimes, or I'll take a picture and I'll be like, oh, I feel pretty.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:00

And then like I was telling mom in the car, I was like, I don't, like, who is that? It's not me. That's not what I've looked like my entire time that I've really gone into. This is how I'm gonna be, this is how I'm gonna look, yeah, this is my style, this is like this is my personalization. It hasn't been this. So it's very much like this isn't like who is that? And then on the other hand, it's very like, oh, that's me. That's me, and sometimes I feel pretty, and sometimes I still feel like that, you know, maybe I should go back, and then I know that I shouldn't. Yeah, I know that's just the enemy speaking to me.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:42

Right.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:43

But it's it's like a back and forth now. Whereas before it was very much like, hey, every time I looked in the mirror, I was like, oh, I need to put on a binder because I need to be flatter. Oh, I need to contour my jaw so it's sharper, I need to cut my hair super short or go bald. I've gone bald a couple times.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:03

Weird. Welcome to the club.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:08

Um, luckily that didn't happen after I got baptized. We have a joke in our family that every person, every man that gets baptized goes bald. He leaves his hair in the water.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:18

Happy to be speaking of that, you're wearing your baptism shirt. Yes. When did you get baptized?

SPEAKER_05 1:03:24

At the park.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:24

Yeah. Tell me about that. How was that experience for you?

SPEAKER_05 1:03:27

Um, it was it was very powerful. I knew I I didn't want to get baptized in the tank. I wanted, I knew right from the start, if I was ever going to be baptized, I wanted to be in the ocean. I didn't want to be in like essentially like man-made holy water. I wanted to be in the water.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:47

So I knew even if I didn't get to tell the testimony, I wanted to be in the ocean. So that was when the opportunity came up, and I was like, oh, I missed the classes because I had school, and school was during, and the mom was like, It's on Saturday. They have one on Saturday. I was like, I'm going. And I signed up right away. And it was just it was very powerful for me. It was very moving. I remember that was the first time I actually fell to my knees during worship. Wow. Um, I was jumping and dancing along. I don't I don't do that either normally, but like that I was jumping, I was dancing, I even though I had like people in my ear, like my fiance, I want him to come. I want him to see me get baptized. He said no. Um, he's slowly, slowly but surely coming to coming to know Christ, but it's a work in progress with him. He's been he's been hurt planning. And I wanted him to come see me get baptized, and he said no. And even then, I was just filled with so much joy and excitement. Me and Kimmy, because Kimmy got baptized by you, and we were like in the like on in line and in the water just singing and dancing. We were so excited. Yeah, it was just it was like for me, because even then I still wasn't fully sure about coming back to being Victoria, but for me, it was like I'm I'm going to go get baptized, I'm going to wash everything but him away, and he's going to do what he needs to do in me.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:26

And he has.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:28

And here you are sharing your testimony. Yeah. You know? Thank you. Really mean that. Thanks for sharing that. And mom, what what would you say from from the the parents' perspective, right? Because there are parents who are struggling with this, right? What what what's your word of encouragement to them?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:47

Um, okay, so as a parent, I would um obviously if you listen to the Sascast, this podcast, you're in the church. Um Don't listen to the lies of the enemy. Your child was created. And he was and she or he were women perfectly, wonderfully, and fearfully made. If you gotta tack it all over the walls, put it all over the walls, because that's what I did. I wrote her name out and I wrote everything that God says about her. And I put it on my wall. And if you gotta sneak it under their pillows, sneak it under their pillows. If you gotta put it under the bed, put it under their bed. Because and your battles are fought on your knees for your children. Don't give up on them. Don't let the enemy distort your you and no, they're not gonna die if they don't transition. They're not gonna suffer if they don't transition. Stay firm to what you believe. Um, because I didn't. And uh I am just so grateful that I there was still a little level of discernment in me that didn't allow my 14-year-old to go get surgery or get hormones. Um DCF's not gonna take your kid just because you don't let him transition. There are plenty of channels they have to go through before they actually do anything like that. Um make sure you know who your therapist is. Um that's a big thing. Um because yes, stories therapist is still the same therapist. But it was also the same therapist that supported her. Okay. It was the same doctor that supported her. So just know who your physicians are, know who your providers are. Um talk to them. Sometimes they're not gonna want to talk to you, but you know what? They're yours till they're 2018 years old. Um, so you have the the right to know. Um, don't allow your school to socially transition them, because in secret they can. Um, they can affirm that, you know, and we won't tell mom. Know what your kids are reading, know what your kids are writing, know what your kids are listening to. Um, that's I ask my kids all the time, what are you reading in school? Um, what's going in your mind? And just pray over them. Every day you you lift them up to the one who made them, and there isn't anything, nothing that he can't restore. Nothing.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:22

Any final words from you?

SPEAKER_05 1:08:23

What is there anything you want to say that we didn't get to say if there is someone who is like me and is transitioning but feels that like what am I doing, don't be scared to stop. It's okay. Like you don't have to go all the way through, you don't have to go get the binder or whatever. You don't you don't have to do it just because you said that you are you're young, you don't have to do it. It's okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:00

Yeah. Thank you so much, guys. Seriously, I mean it. Um I've been blessed to to hear you guys' story personally. Um, because sometimes you you you you talk about these things, right? And my concern is always that people might think, oh, this might be happening somewhere else, right? But it's good for people to see like the reality of it right here in in our neck of the woods, right? In our community, basically, you know. And I'm so thankful that uh you guys allowed the Holy Spirit to really lead the way and get you all the way here. He's gonna continue to lead you. Like you said, you're gonna have your battles, you're gonna have your struggles, right? Um, even like I have two daughters and they struggle with these things, right? I don't feel pretty. I don't feel you know, I don't all that stuff. I'm sure guys are feeling that way in some way. I don't feel muscular or whatever that is, right? And and that's why we have to constantly remember that identity is only found in Jesus, right? Because us there's always gonna be something that doesn't feel right. There's always gonna be something that doesn't align itself with the way we think it should, right? And that's why I I always tell people, like, you gotta go deeper than that. You gotta get to the source of what you really are, which is only Jesus, right? There's no one else, you know. And it was so cool to to have that last baptism at the beach. It was a beautiful day. We will not forget that day, and I'm so glad that you were part of that day, you know. And I'm I'm so glad that you guys are part of the the community that we have, and pray that this conversation is gonna help and encourage a lot of people. So God bless you guys.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:28

Thank you.